Words Andrew Lawn
What's your favourite thing about Norwegian football and Norwegian footballing culture? What makes it special or unique?
I think the main thing is the amount of people who are actually playing football. I think it's something like 78% of 10-year-olds actually play in a club, which is an enormously high number. We can then get a bit concerned when the number drops of people get a bit older, but for me it's ridiculously good that 78% of children are playing. It's natural that some of them will think ‘football is not really for me’ later on.
We should be very proud that such a large number of children, boys and girls, are playing football at a young age, and obviously the national teams benefit from that.
There has been a big drive by the Norwegian Football Federation over the last 10 or 15 years to build new pitches and there are so many artificial pitches all over the country that anyone can just turn up and play on. I've spent so many holidays in Italy, Spain, Portugal, looking for football pitches with my kids because there's not that many. Here they are everywhere they are, and, and we're a pretty big country. So, that’s really good for football.
There is an ongoing debate however whether it is good that we play on these artifical surfaces, because that's not how they do it abroad. Lots of our elite clubs are ripping up their grass pitches and putting down astro-turf, which is great when AS Roma come to play FK Bodø/Glimt, but in the long run I'm not sure. One example is Martin Ødegaard. He has grown up on artificial surfaces and probably his best game was when Portugal U21s came to play Norway U21s in Ødegaard’s home town. There he was, two or three years younger than everyone else, but he is spinning this way and that, he is the best player on the pitch and everyone there is like ‘wow this is a talent’. But then you know he goes to Spain and spends some time on loan in the north of Spain, on grass, in the rain, the speed of the game is different and it was difficult for him, so that’s a big discussion right now.
The other side of the debate is that since these pitches started being built 15 years ago, we are starting to see this very talented generation coming though, so maybe the opportunity to play football is more important than surface that they are playing on? I think they've benefited from having all these pictures everywhere, because you can just go down, take a ball and just play.
At the same time, Norway has got this bit of a and identity crisis, when it comes to football, should we play the Egil Olsen way, or is that old school now? Football is different, so should we move on and try and play the way Spain play? These discussions are always going on you know? I don't know the answer, but I do think it's great that they have got all these pitches that kids can play on. That said, I believe that we should just try and stick with the grass where possible, so that they have the chance to adapt to that too. It’s a balance.
Do you have a favourite stadium in Norway either to go as a fan or where did you enjoy playing?
I think I'd say SK Brann in Bergen. It's a special place in this country. But, there's one place which I haven't been, but I would love to go; Henningsvær in Lofoten up in the north of the country.
In terms of fans and atmosphere, what is your favourite kind of story from your playing career in particular where you're interacting with fans or hearing chants?
I was in Germany for a couple of years and in Germany at the time, it was pretty common that the goalies would through their gloves to the fans after the match. I adopted that and started doing it too, but only when we won, so it could be six months between having to buy new gloves.
When I moved to Spurs, I kept doing it. There was this one game at White Hart Lane, where we’re 1-0 up in injury time and the referee whistles. I went behind the goal and throw in my gloves, celebrating with the fans and they were very eager, a bit more excited than usual pointing and shouting and stuff, so I turn around and the referee hasn't whistled for full-time, just a free-kick for them and they’re now on the attack… So, there I am standing in the goal with no gloves, It was just a couple of minutes, but imagine conceding a goal like that while I was behind the goal celebrating a win. I’d have had to leave.
Is it right that you were the first Norwegian to in the FA Cup, the first Norwegian to play in the Premier League and the first ever Premier League substitute?
Right. The last one I've read somewhere recently. It’s a good trivia question. I didn’t really realise at the time, but I think Ian Walker got injured after about 10 minutes on the opening day of the season. I can't really remember but I'll take that.
Do you think it was a big deal in Norway for you to win the FA Cup? Because English football is huge here, was that a big deal?
Yeah, it was I think it was. The game took place on 18th May I remember. I know because the 17th of May, is a big thing in Norway, it’s our national day and its massive; there are children’s parades, and street parties and things. I didn't really reflect that much on the achievement at the time. I think as players – as humans – we are always taught to look ahead; ‘what’s the next thing?’ I have sort of come to peace with myself now and reflected and I do feel some pride.
During the game, I felt like everything was going against us. They scored from the free-kick Gazza injured himself conceding, then we had a goal ruled out for offside and Gary Lineker missed a penalty everything was really going against us. We hung in there and equalised just after half-time, before winning it in extra-time. After the match I didn't really know what to do. Before the game I was so set on winning that thing that when the final whistle went, I didn’t really know what to do. Do you run around like a headless chicken, or do you sit down and cry? I sort of did a pathetic thing in the middle. After the game, we went to the hospital to see Gazza because we would never have made it without him. He was tremendous, he really carried us there.
Terry Venables was our manager at the time. He was very much a player’s manager, not a strict disciplinarian. I think we probably could have done with a bit more discipling, because even by English football standards that was a crazy bunch and Gazza was not remotely close to being the worst.
I remember we played an away game, I think it was at Sheffield United and I broke my nose. It would not stop bleeding. We were on the bus to come back and on the table in front me of me I had all these bloody tissues. Steve Sedgley came walking up the aisle, grabbed them and ate them. He’s a nice guy Sedge, him and Gazza were great mates.
There was another time when Sedge was sitting in his car and he looked in the rear view mirror and saw Gazza coming out of the changing rooms with a rifle. Sedge knew he was in trouble, and tried to race out of the car park as Gazza shot his back windows out.
There’s also the famous story of Gazza bringing an ostrich to training. It was a wonderful time and great to be a part of it, but I was pretty shocked when I first came, but you adapt. It was a lot of fun. But, I think there has to be a line, when it comes to some kind of respect for other people and others property and things like that, you know?
For example, we had this fan who used to hang around at the training ground and one time there was a minivan which used to take all our kit to away games sitting in the car park. Gazza put something up on the roof. He then said to this guy ‘John, we have a game tomorrow and I don’t want to break my leg, can you jump up there and get it?’ Of course, John then climbs up onto the roof of this van and Gazza jumps straight behind the wheel, full gas out of the training ground and around a roundabout. John is just up there clinging to the roof. He could have killed him, but it was pretty funny.
It’s really difficult to say what is and isn’t acceptable, or where the line is, so I think within a team, I think you need to set down some rules. I think at Spurs, it almost seemed to me that the club used to be a bit afraid of the players and that if you were too strict, the dressing room would turn against them.
Do you think that Venables’ lack of discipline stopped you reaching the potential in the team?
Yes. I think we were not disciplined enough between games to be consistent throughout an entire season which is required to win a league. We could always raise our game for cup games and we showed we had the talent to win those and do well on special occasions.
I had been to Germany before Spurs, so I could see the difference. The contrast was immense because in Germany you had to weigh what you ate and what you drank every day. Everything was tracked. Also in Germany, if you didn't perform during training for a week, you might not play on Saturday - that wouldn't happen in England. Training there was more about ticking over, it wasn’t really about improving.
But the thing was that the English players had so much natural, born talent and their mentality was incredible. They were so relaxed before matches, but then after the warm-up, it was like a light switch. I remember literally seeing people banging their heads against the wall to fire themselves up.
In Norwegian dressing rooms before a match it was always so quiet. Nobody wasted any energy, but it was like everybody was like nervous and staring at their shoes. In England, they were relaxed and then boom.
You played at the 1994 World Cup in the USA. What are your memories of that tournament? Was that the pinnacle of your career?
Playing at the World Cup for my country and winning the FA Cup; they are the main two things from me. I also played in the Los Angeles Olympics in 1984, so that maybe third.
What I remember from 1994 was how extremely hot it was for our first match (a 1-0 win over Mexico) and then we lost 1-0 against the 10 men of Italy. That was a big blow.
Before that game, we honestly believed that we could win the World Cup. We were ranked number two in the world at the time but losing to a team who had 10 men for 70 minutes, was a big blow to our confidence. We didn't really recover and just played out a 0-0 draw against Ireland, which would have been enough if Italy or Mexico had won the other game as three of the four advanced, but they drew 1-1 and we were eliminated.
Egil Olsen suggested one problem you had was that you all trained too hard?
Well the competition for places was incredible, so everybody in training was really, really going for it. The intensity was sky high the whole time. Also, our playing style involved a lot of hard running all the time which was even tougher because it was so warm.
Who were your footballing idols growing up?
Erik Johannessen, the goalkeeper for my local team Viking.
I was lucky because I think the first football match I ever attended was also Erik’s first match as a Viking goalie, he was just 18 years old. He took over from quite a legendary Norwegian national team goalkeeper and ended up playing 245 games. At that time, Viking won everything. They won the league, four years on the trot. So, I thought this is great we were the best and could look down upon the rest of the Norway.
Back then, the team used to get changed for the game in the clubhouse which was outside the stadium, through these gates, so after the match they would have to walk out and I remember being in the crowd of people heading out of the stadium and Erik was in front of me, so I snuck up on him and just touched his back. I think I was 10 or 11 years old and it was a big moment for me. I knew then that I wanted to be a goalkeeper.
He was such a charismatic figure shouting at the defence so loud you could hear him from the stands and sort of clowning around, rolling on the floor. That stayed with me, even when I was in trials for the junior national teams. I remember they spoke to the goalies about how they should be reliable, steady goalkeepers - not like Erik - and I was thinking ‘they're wrong’. You might only see the showmanship but underneath that, is a really good goalie.
One season I think he only conceded 10 goals, over the whole season. You need to be technically good, but there is more to goalkeeping than doing everything by the book. You have to try and dominate the opposition. That might mean leaping up after a tackle and screaming “don’t touch me” at a striker and using your personality to physically dominate.
Mentally you have to be tough too. As a goalie you will make mistakes, but Erik -as the very best ones today do – didn’t care. He just went for the next one. I learned so much from him and the strange thing with Erik is that we have become friends since, so my idol became my friend.
You were playing when the backpass rule came in, how big an adjustment was that?
The first match I played with it was an international game against Holland and I was so confused. At one point, someone threw the ball to me and I was like ‘can I pick this up?’ It was a big thing at the time. I remember someone suggesting that it would lead to a ‘keeper breaking his leg because we didn’t know what we were doing.
I was one of the few goalkeepers who actually said at the time that I thought it was a good thing because it was ridiculous. Give it to a defender, get it back, pick it up, over and over, back and forth. The game has really evolved since it’s introduction, which has been interesting.
I was pretty good with my feet because I used to play outfield a lot when I was a kid, plus in Germany every single training session included 25 minutes of rondos - it was the basis of everything they did and they were so good at it.
Your son Kristian is a professional footballer and has recently broken in to the national team. How good is he and how proud are you?
There are a few players in the national squad at the moment who had professional footballers as parents; Kristian, Erling Haaland of course and there is Emil Bohinen (son of Lars Bohinen) and Thomas Rekdal (son of Kjetail Rekdal) coming through too. Who knows, maybe it is genetics?
I think the advantage we have, is that we know how to put enough just enough pressure on the kids. I used to train Kristian’s team from he when he was five, until he was 12 and you see so many parents who you look at and wonder ‘is your kid here because they want to be here, or is it because their parent wants them to be here? Of course, they need to be pushed a little bit sometimes and sometimes you need to step back because in the end it has to come from themselves. If you push and push and push all the time they don't have the space to find out that they love it too.
As a parent it is tough watching them because you know that the higher up in the system, you get, the bigger the fall. But I enjoy it too and for Kristian it's a massive bonus because he came from almost nowhere. Back in 2018, he was going to college in the US, because no professional teams wanted him and he didn’t have a contract, so he was going to New Hampshire, everything was settled.
My old club Viking had just gone down a division and we’re rebuilding after lots of players left. I called and asked if Kristian could come and train with them for a few days? They didn’t know him as a player, so I told them, ‘he scores goals and he gets yellow cards’. Thankfully, they agreed and he went over and earned himself a contract, and has really kicked on from there, winning Young Player of the Season before Genk came in and offered him the chance to go to Belgium.
Now he has this big confidence as well as a big work rate, because he knows he is not a perfect football player, so he compensates.
We have this saying in Norway about parents being ‘curling parents’. You know in curling they have the sweepers on the broom, who sweep away all the obstacles in front of the stone, smoothing it out. But you need those rough bits. Maybe you don’t play every week, or maybe you’re smaller or not as quick as everyone else. Well, I always said to Kristian, who was smaller than his friends when he was a child, it's better because you have to work harder.
Yes, it's easy to say, but when you're in the midst of it, it is hard, really hard but I think that sort of process has gone through has helped. If you just smooth everything and lift kids up, telling them how great they are what happens when they get some problems, or a coach doesn't like them? Are they able to cope with that?
